FreeNAS 11.2-Beta2 is Now Available!

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kdragon75

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WHAT!? Why? FreenAS is perfect for backing up VMWare stuff in a home lab environment. Booo.
VAAI is less important for backup target than as a datastore as your not doing cloning of disk zeroing or have 500 VMs using the datastore at the same time. Still any reduction in support for VAAI primitives is bad news.
 

kdragon75

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Some interesting information from FreeBSD.org
NAME
ctl -- CAM Target Layer
...
Support for VMWare VAAI and Microsoft ODX offload (COMPARE AND WRITE,
XCOPY, POPULATE TOKEN/WRITE USING TOKEN, WRITE SAME and UNMAP)
So the VAAI support is built into ctl, the driver that backs FreeNAS iSCSI and Fibre Channel. What they appear to be doing is removing the VAAI support for NFS on FreeNAS but not TrueNAS. I can't seem to easily find any information about the VAAI support on FreeNAS NFS.

With all of that noted, it my professional opinion that zvol backed iSCSI should be use for hosting VMs anyway.
 

kdragon75

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Ericloewe

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If you have questions or concerns, address them to the responsible iX people in a visible manner so that it doesn't get lost in the noise.
 

emk2203

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I don't know if they are just redoing things but I could see them pushing any and all SAN functionality to TrueNAS only. Like I said if VAAI goes, I'm going to pure FreeBSD or Enterprise Storage OS.
Makes you think about the latest dumbing down of the interface, and maybe that's the intention. Just give the bare minimum, the rest for paying customers.
 

zambanini

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@jgreco dear Master of the zfs system, do you have some information about the vaai code remove story?
 

Ericloewe

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Why would you expect @jgreco to have some deeper insight into what iX is doing? Why not any of the people who work at iX?
 

JustinClift

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One of those mentions a ticket #26633.

Guessing that's a Redmine ticket, so the details should be here:

https://redmine.ixsystems.com/issues/26633

Weirdly, that ticket seems to be marked as restricted access, so it doesn't show the details even for logged in users. :(

@Ericloewe If that's the right ticket, is it feasible to change that to public so people can follow along? :)
 

Ericloewe

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I wouldn't know, generally they're private because the submitter uploaded a debug tarball. @dlavigne might be able to help you, though.
 

Drocket

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Makes you think about the latest dumbing down of the interface, and maybe that's the intention. Just give the bare minimum, the rest for paying customers.
Do you think malicious or just trying to keep up with the Robinsons?
The first time I came across this article: TheRegister - It's Official, users navigate flat UI designs 22 per cent slower
was after PF Sense had recently changed their UI. It looked good, but I could no longer fit the relevant data for my interfaces and stats on a page. The new interface required scrolling which made it noticeably harder to use. I understand wanting to make landing pages look updated for captchas, logins, mobile logins, etc, but I haven't met many administrators or systems people that prefer pretty over usable. As pointed out, the old UI is available, however the updates should be back ported to the old UI. If the new UI has all the issues mentioned previously addressed, I hope they have an option to keep the displayed data density similar to the legacy UI.
 

Ericloewe

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emk2203

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Do you think malicious or just trying to keep up with the Robinsons?
The first time I came across this article: TheRegister - It's Official, users navigate flat UI designs 22 per cent slower
was after PF Sense had recently changed their UI. It looked good, but I could no longer fit the relevant data for my interfaces and stats on a page.
After I read @MatthewSteinhoff 's comments, it dawned on me that it could be a threat to iXsystems if too many potential customers like him use FreeNAS instead of TrueNAS.

iXsystems needs to put bread on the table for the developers, they are not the salvation army. So, they need a free product for advertising (FreeNAS), but if the free product can do everything needed for the potential paying customers of TrueNAS, they cut themselves off.

A needed rework of the interface is an excellent opportunity to trim down the features for the free product as well. You want logs over a year? Please go purchase TrueNAS, you are a target customer.

So, not 'malicious', but business sense. Keeping up with the Robinsons and following the trend is another factor, but I think market pressure plays a role here.
 

Apollo

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Just a question here, but I have some concern about upgrading ZFS pool to Beta 2 and impact on existing iocage jails setup.
In a lump sum, I have been trying to fix a few performance/configuration issue with iocage but as I was making some fine tuning update I seem to have lost access to my Nextcloud iocage jail.
I must say, since the integration of Netdata integration, I have been getting more or less relevent warning about memory and ethernet load levels ( Memory starvation due to cash or memory RAM swapping which used to have been hidden under previous Beta 2 releases . I did however upgrade my ZPS pool to the newest FreeBSD whatever the number, and from that point on, seem to have lost access to my data over Nextcloud iocage setup.
I must say I might have cause some issue of my own, but at this point in time I am not able to correct the mistake I have caused. It seems whatever I do doesn't affect the outcome.
I suspect more in depth finer details are obfuscating my real interaction with my iocage dataset.
I will try to recover from past replication and see how far I get on with this.
In the meantime, I am asking whether or not some underlying updates or configuration on the Freenas code is inter-racting in a negative way with what I used to be true?
 

Ericloewe

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After I read @MatthewSteinhoff 's comments, it dawned on me that it could be a threat to iXsystems if too many potential customers like him use FreeNAS instead of TrueNAS.

iXsystems needs to put bread on the table for the developers, they are not the salvation army. So, they need a free product for advertising (FreeNAS), but if the free product can do everything needed for the potential paying customers of TrueNAS, they cut themselves off.

A needed rework of the interface is an excellent opportunity to trim down the features for the free product as well. You want logs over a year? Please go purchase TrueNAS, you are a target customer.

So, not 'malicious', but business sense. Keeping up with the Robinsons and following the trend is another factor, but I think market pressure plays a role here.
There is no "trimming down" of features. There's one particular feature that apparently is being removed because it doesn't work correctly, by whatever definition iX is using.
 

Ericloewe

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emk2203

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There is no "trimming down" of features.
OK, make that "easy accessible via a dashboard" features. The points T @MatthewSteinhoff mentioned are valid and lacking at the moment. I have a hard time seeing how they can be implemented with the current design decision.

For me, it's a repeat of the Windows 8 situation. Took a lot of backpaddling and changes to get to Windows 10.
 

Ericloewe

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The points T @MatthewSteinhoff mentioned are valid and lacking at the moment.
Yeah, but they're growing pains, not deliberate removal of features. FreeNAS is complicated enough that you can't just reimplement everything quickly. That's why feedback is important.
 
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