Alternative to FreeNAS? ESXi, linux, FreeBSD?

[Thinkcat]

Hello

I have been running a FreeNAS box for some time now. I have three WD Red HDs in RAID1. The machine has 4 GB memory, an AMD CPU and does not support ECC memory.

I recently got a Haswell Xeon, a Supermicro motherboard and more memory, this time with ECC.

My point and my problem is, I want to run the machine as a general purpose server in addition to a NAS. I cannot afford two server machines, one an actual server and one a NAS. I am a student doing things at home. I keep wondering if I can use FreeNAS to do everything I could do on a general purpose server, or if I should try using a general purpose linux distribution or plain FreeBSD.

I could also try some kind of low level virtualization with VMware ESXi. One machine running FreeNAS, one running the server software. What would people suggest? What have people done with their machines?

1. A native FreeNAS with jails acting as servers. I want to run all kinds of applications, so a plugin architecture would not do here.
2. A linux machine. I would configure it to share the ZFS volumes as much as possible like FreeNAS does. I would also configure it to email me security logs. Would have to figure out how that is done.
3. Same as above, but using FreeBSD as a base.
4. A VMware ESXi system with a virtualized FreeNAS running side by side with a virtualized linux or FreeBSD server.

 

[DrKK]

I, personally, do #1. The only service not on the FreeNAS is my coding environment. But that's ok, I just use a VM, on demand, on my main desktop box to put me into my Linux coding environment.

All my other services, DNS, Mumble, web server, databases, mail server, PHP, blah, blah, blah, is all on FreeNAS jails. Works great.

 

[jgreco]

The native FreeNAS with VirtualBox is perfectly suited to running a few virtual machines and is very simple relative to the other options.

If you need a larger number of VM's, ESXi is probably the way to go. We don't recommend that unless you're already familiar with ESXi because there are substantial risks.

 

[anodos]

Jails work great. FreeNAS 10 will add bhyve support, which might be really nice and scale better than virtualbox. I'll be one of the guys sitting back and watching the redshirts rush off to the upgrade when it comes out. That being said, I'm sure there's a red shirt sitting around here in just your size. :D

 

[jgreco]

Yeah, scaling well is one of the problems with VirtualBox. It is really very good at running one or two virtual machines on someone's desktop machine, but kinda falls apart past half a dozen or thereabouts. It is a solid Type 2 hypervisor. bhyve is technically someplace a little in between, it looks like a Type 2 but it has some characteristics of a Type 1. Unfortunately it is unlikely to replace ESXi anytime soon. :-/

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

What would people suggest?

Given your planned usage, I would suggest buying a lot more RAM ;)

 

[jgreco]

Given your planned usage, I would suggest buying a lot more RAM ;)

He hasn't quoted a specific amount, but, yes, if it's less than 32, more would be good.

 

[Thinkcat]

I was asking about the operating system. I do not need any advice with RAM. I said 'server' and you let your imagination run wild. I also said that I am a student. That says 'no money'. One can run a server in a 2 GB virtual machine. I do not need more performance than that.

This is not a company, workgroup or a scheme to get rich quick. This is a machine to store my personal life and a machine for trying out things and technologies. And maybe to serve a webpage or two to maximum of two concurrent users. You are free to buy me the second 16 GB if you need me to have it. I don't need to have it, and I think that is what counts.

 

[jgreco]

<moderator hat> Okay, please relax a bit... people are just trying to be helpful here, and you didn't really provide much information to work with. Is it shocking that imaginations run wild? We see unhappy scenarios nearly daily, and everyone here just wants things to work out for you. The only number you supplied was "4GB" and then a vague statement about a new system with "more memory." You will get the most benefit out of the forums if you read things assuming that people of varying skill sets are all providing input of varying quality and expertise but that they all want to be helpful. </moderator hat>

 

[depasseg]

I cannot afford two server machines, one an actual server and one a NAS. I am a student doing things at home. I keep wondering if I can use FreeNAS to do everything I could do on a general purpose server, or if I should try using a general purpose linux distribution or plain FreeBSD.

"General Purpose Server" is a very broad comparison target. People are doing all of the options you mentioned. However, it's really up to your willingness to roll up sleeves, your technical abilities, and the technical solutions you are looking for. For instance, if you need a lot of Windows VM's, I'm thinking FreeNAS Jails aren't as straightforward as ESX. Maybe your workloads are easily "jail-ized" in which case a FreeNAS or FreeBSD base could work.

 

[jgreco]

FreeNAS running VirtualBox doesn't scale well if you want to run a lot of Windows VM's, but then again, on a box with limited resources, there will need to be tradeoffs regardless of the hypervisor. The VirtualBox route at least enables the jails to share the FreeNAS storage pool.

 

[toadman]

Assuming you really need (or want) ZFS, FreeNAS running virtualbox is probably the easiest answer. HOWEVER, having been where you are I'd say #4 can be quite satisfying/interesting as well. (If you go that route, just don't screw up the VM creation hw level. i.e. look at the limitations of the free ESXi with respect to managing vm hw versions with the free management client.)

 

[Thinkcat]

FreeNAS running VirtualBox doesn't scale well if you want to run a lot of Windows VM's, but then again, on a box with limited resources, there will need to be tradeoffs regardless of the hypervisor. The VirtualBox route at least enables the jails to share the FreeNAS storage pool.

I only want to run two OS images maximum. Either a single one that acts both as a GP server and a NAS. Or two, where one is the GP server and another is the NAS. In the latter case it is FreeNAS + linux or FreeNAS + FreeBSD. In the former case it is either linux, FreeBSD or FreeNAS. As far as I know, I have access to the whole VMware portfolio.

I think my next step is to try to do it all in one FreeBSD 10.2 image.

 

[jgreco]

Then it seems clear that you're probably best off running FreeNAS with a jail or two that has a FreeBSD image. That's extremely efficient and lightweight on the system and gives you all the ZFS goodness.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

I only want to run two OS images maximum.

Data Point
On a typical day I'm running anywhere from 2-6 Ubuntu Server VMs using the FreeNAS VirtualBox jail. The VMs are mostly for WordPress development, which isn't very demanding. One of them is my always-on BTSync node. The only time my G3220 breaks a sweat is when multiple VMs boot at the same time. I allow each VM to use up to 100% of one core, and either 512MB or 1GB of RAM.

When I was doing this on a T110 with a Xeon X3440, I would often see a few MB of swap in use. That machine was maxed out at 16GB of RAM. With my shiny new T20 and 32GB of RAM, there's no more swapping.

 

[jgreco]

That's actually a very good indication of how to make a VM environment work well. Size your VM's VERY carefully and only resource them with what is actually necessary for a task. Dozens of the VM's in production here are running on 256MB and one core (on ESXi) and very few machines break two cores and 2GB of RAM.

 

[Pehpe]

I plan the same setup for my home-network (if this works).

In the case i would build a FreeNAS with Xeon E3 - 1230V3, 32GB RAM 5x6TB ...
Does a virtualized Windows or Linux profit of this setup. Or is it limited because of the jail.

I want to run max. 2-3 VMs on it at the same time and use it maybe to watch movies, office, browsing, youtube...

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

Does a virtualized Windows or Linux profit of this setup. Or is it limited because of the jail.

I have not attempted to run Windows in the FreeNAS VirtualBox jail, but I know some have found it to be challenging. One thing that seems to help a lot with VM stability is enabling "Use host I/O cache" on the virtual SATA controller.

 

[Pehpe]

I have not attempted to run Windows in the FreeNAS VirtualBox jail, but I know some have found it to be challenging. One thing that seems to help a lot with VM stability is enabling "Use host I/O cache" on the virtual SATA controller.

BTW Windows would be only for my wife maybe. Kids and me are using Linux with Xfce Desktop. Would Linux or OpenBSD be better?

 

[anodos]

BTW Windows would be only for my wife maybe. Kids and me are using Linux with Xfce Desktop. Would Linux or OpenBSD be better?

I ran a Windows server 2012r2 instance in a vbox jail for about 6 months. Stability was acceptable.

By the way, virtualbox on freenas is headless. You need a second computer to administer / use VMs. For windows, I usually enable rdp in the VM.